Our journey into the Advanced Training Institute (ATI) began when my second child was about 6 months old. I remember quitting my job as a nurse to become a stay at home mom, and thinking that it was quite a sacrifice. Then, about two years later, my husband came to me and told me that God had been impressing on his heart that we should homeschool our children. He asked me to pray about this to see if I also felt this way. To be honest, I didn’t want to pray about it. I figured if God had already laid this on his heart then He would tell me the same thing.
I wasn’t sure I wanted to homeschool our children. I felt very inadequate as a parent and had really struggled in school myself, especially during my elementary years. But I did pray, and God answered by giving me a peace about homeschooling. Looking back, I remember starting with a curriculum that seemed pretty decent and I would probably still recommend it today.
The problem came—or should I say the influence to change curriculum came—when we were approached by someone in our church (who also happened to serve with my husband on our church staff) who presented what looked like the best homeschooling option out there: the Advanced Training Institute. This man’s family in particular seemed to always have it together. He and his wife had four kids at the time, and they always looked very neat and clean. They were polite and respectful, and they seemed to have a close relationship. From all appearances, they seemed to have a lot of fun.
Honestly, they were what I as a young believer thought godliness might look like. I was a new Christian and very vulnerable. I wanted my family to be like this family at church. I wanted godly children. Being raised in a dysfunctional family and not having many happy childhood memories myself, I saw getting into the ATI program as a guarantee to having godly children: children who would grow up to be “mighty in spirit.” I thought it would make us a close-knit family.
I don’t remember us praying about whether we should get into this program or not. Why would we pray about something as wonderful as this? My husband didn’t know a lot about the program, but he was also impressed with this family and their children, and he had a lot of respect for their father. He knew that I would be doing most of the teaching and was supportive of whatever curriculum I chose.
So, we got into ATI. This one family continued to have a lot of influence on us for several years, but the Lord eventually saw it best to move them to another church in another state. This was only one example of how God in many ways did spare us from the worst of Bill Gothard’s influence.
Throughout our years in ATI, I would get so frustrated when we were financially unable to attend many of the parent training conferences in Tennessee. Looking back, I can see how God was protecting us, especially my children. For most of my children’s growing up years, I taught from the Wisdom Booklets, but also supplemented with other curriculum. I felt they would not be getting a thorough education with only the Wisdom Booklets, but I remember feeling guilty. Bill Gothard had said that the Wisdom Booklets were all that we needed.
I did allow my kids to take piano lessons and sing in the children’s choir at church. They learned a lot about music, and in fact music became an area that they excelled. However, one of our biggest struggles during these years is that we were constantly evaluating the music at our church. Our church was going through a bit of a worship style transition, and all of the other families in our church who had been in ATI or affiliated with Bill Gothard through IBLP had left. We became very prideful in our discernment of music. We couldn’t understand how everyone else in our church couldn’t see the sin in the rock beat.
I can remember in the days before getting into ATI that I would look forward to Sundays and worshiping the Lord through song. It didn’t matter who was singing or what songs they chose. Then, I was taught that the rock beat was evil and that it would cause my children to rebel against God, and I could no longer enjoy the music service. I was constantly evaluating whether the music fit what Bill had said was godly. This evaluation of the music wasn’t only being done by me, but the rest of my family as well.
I remember getting a new music minister who was very contemporary. I was horrified by his “ungodly” music, and I’m sad to say that my family and I missed many opportunities to get to know this man and his family because of believing Bill Gothard’s teaching on music. As a matter of fact, because of our beliefs and our pride we eventually left a great church and my husband left a great staff position.
When my husband resigned his church position, we spent a couple of months at the Oklahoma City Training Center. Not all of our experiences there were bad, but our eyes were beginning to be opened to some things that just didn’t seem right. We joined another church shortly after our stay at the OTC and thankfully about a year later my husband was once again a part of a church staff. It was during the next few years that my family and I began to really question most of Bill Gothard’s teachings, especially the false teachings on rock music.
My oldest son had attended some music conferences at the Indianapolis Training Center. He came back with more music skills, but also seemed a bit “rebellious.” I remember he was questioning things and sharing things that he had learned about Bill while there. I had a lot of trouble believing him, but kept pondering the things that he had said. Not long after that, my other son told me about a book that he had read called “A Matter of Basic Principles” by a man named Don Venoit. He told me that I really needed to read this book. He said that he didn’t know if everything in it was true, but if even a fourth of it was true it would be too much. I bought the book and was horrified by what I was read, especially when I was able to verify most of its accuracy.
I also joined a discussion website and read many stories from young people about their terrible experiences in ATI. I had no idea there were so many unhappy young people, and I cannot even express adequately in words how I felt as a parent. I remember being broken, humiliated, embarrassed and confused. I was now questioning pretty much everything that I had embraced for the past 16 years. I kept asking myself, “What is really the truth?”
I needed to apologize to a lot of people, especially my children. It saddens me to think about all of the unnecessary bondage I put my family through. It still breaks my heart today that I didn’t allow them to just enjoy being kids and have friendships outside of our home. Was it all bad? Of course not, but thankfully ATI and Bill Gothard are now a part of our past.
Romans 8:28 - God “causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.”
Me and my granddaughters Shiloh and Claire
We have been recovering for over eight years now.
I know I cannot change my past or the pain that I caused my children during their childhood, but I am comforted in knowing that God is using my mistakes and turning them around and making something beautiful out of them. It would be easier and less painful to just try to forget all about my involvement in ATI and IBLP, but God won’t let me do that.
I’m thankful for God’s forgiveness, grace and mercy. I am thankful that my children, now all grown up, have forgiven me. I am thankful that they each love the Lord and, amazingly, still desire to serve Him. And finally, I’m thankful that God has been using our story to help others get free from a lifestyle of legalism and bondage. To God be the glory, great things He has done!
Tammy Cornish raised three children in the Advanced Training Institute from 1986-2002. She currently lives in Lawton, OK, with her husband Barry, who is a minister. All three of her kids are now married. Her sons, John and Brian, are both in full-time Christian ministry and are contributing authors to the Recovering Grace website. Her daughter Grace was recently married to Kody and has her own business. Tammy currently has 4 grandchildren and another on the way.
Tammy, thank you SO much for speaking up! I think I may be able to speak for many of us former ATI students when I say that I don't hold it against my parents for getting involved in ATI. They did the best they knew how, and they really didn't know the effect it was having.
It means so much when parents admit that we were damaged, even though they never intended for it to happen and would have prevented it if they could.
Thank you Elizabeth for your kinds words which have encouraged me today. I think that most parents got into ATI believing it would be something good for their family. Thankfully, God can take our mistakes, whatever they may be, and turn them around for His good. This truth gives me so much hope.
I'd like to ditto what Elizabeth Cook said. I used to be angry about a lot of things with my parents, but I truly understand now that they only wanted good things for us kids. Thank you for sharing your perspective!
I appreciate your words of encouragement today.
Mrs. Cornish, you ROCK!!
A Matter of Basic Principles was also one of the first inklings I had that "the king is in his underwear". I recognized some of the stories in there, and knew they were true. Thanks to Don Veinot for being a guidepost to help so many begin their journey to freedom.
Thank you for sharing your story with us!
Mrs. Cornish, you ROCK!! This made me laugh! :) Thanks.
And yes, thank goodness for Don Veinot and his book, "A Matter of Basic Principles!"
Yes, great job, Tammy. The parent's viewpoint is something this site needs. Thanks so much for being willing to write about your experience.
I was just writing back and forth with my sister about this today.
The fact that I am more than ready to speak out about the harm I see as inherent in IBLP/ATI does NOT mean that I am blaming my parents or am holding it against them in any way that they chose to get into the program.
If anything, I may be slightly puzzled still my parents and that such a solid church supported Gothard to any extent at all.
I would be as surprised that my parents or church had supported any 'ministry' that has negatively impacted thousands of Christian families.
I would also not be abashed to say something about what I saw, whether it be the ministry of Benny Hinn, Bill Gothard, Doug Phillips or Fred Phelps. =)
Still, at least in my case, that does not imply anger or even a long-held grudge. My parents were and are still growing and changing every bit as much as I am. Their involvement was actually quite minimal, and they only did what they thought would be best for our family.
The old saying, "Hind site is 20/20 is so true!" The foolishness of
Gothard's teaching seem so much clearer now. I tend to be very, if not overly, cautious now of anyone who is proclaiming truth. But, you know what? We are supposed to check out things to see if they line up with what the Scriptures say. A mistake many of us make by not doing so. Glad to hear that you and your family are growing in your faith and are recovering from the damage done from Bill's teachings.
Wow, thank you so much for sharing this, Tammy!
I feel for your pain as well. It's hard for many of our parents to understand what we went through but it's hard for us to understand some of the deep things this stirs up for the parents. Obviously you had the best intentions. It's really hard to invest years of effort into something that turns out to have been a false promise. Thankfully God can redeem all of this and turn it into something good and beautiful!
Not gonna lie! It was painful to go back and re-hash this information in my mind, but I felt it was necessary to do so for my continued healing. Each of our stories are different, yet God is using them to bring healing and restoration to many. I'm praying for those who are still in bondage to Bill's teachings to find this website and that the Lord will use it to open their eyes to what is true.
Thanks for putting this out there for the parents! I know that I don't blame my parents for being in ATI. They are people and they make mistakes just like everyone else.
Thanks Faith for your comment. It's good that you don't blame your parents. As much as we don't want to make mistakes, we all do and unfortunately, our mistakes often hurt others.
Tammy,
Thank you for sharing your story! I know it must not be easy as a parent to admit you drank the "koolaid" too! I could relate to alot of your story! May God bless you as you continue to seek Him in your journey in freedom and grace! :)
No, it isn't easy. Pride often gets in the way. Thank you for your kind words. This is a journey that many of us are in together depending on the Lord for His help.
As a parent I can relate to your motives for joining ATI. We were also new Christians and the families we were exposed to in the program seemed to have the godliness thing down pat.
I remember telling my husband that I wanted to be able to know ahead of time what the right answers were to decisions we needed to make for our family, rather than doing things, THEN seeing what could go wrong. I felt like we were walking a tightrope and any little thing could tip us over into sin.
We had no idea of the grace of God, so ATI was "perfect" for us. All we had to do was follow the principles and we would always know the right things to do and the right things to avoid.
More than anything else, it was the scriptures themselves that helped us to see the difference between what God's word actually said and what we were being taught, and one summer as I was listening to Romans over and over in order to memorize Romans 6, 7 & 8, I finally understood the love that God has for us. He sent his son to die for me BECAUSE HE KNEW THAT I COULD NEVER, EVER BE GOOD ENOUGH no matter how hard I tried. I realized that my striving so hard to be perfect was making the cross of Christ of no effect in my life.
My thoughts and actions were a slap in the face to my loving, heavenly Father, who loved me so much to send his Son to die for me to cover my sins, so that I COULD be "good enough" to be with Him in heaven someday.
Realizing just how much God loves me made me realize that it was okay to be myself, to think my own thoughts and have my own opinions, because I reflect back to Him the gifts and talants that He has given me. I may not appear to be "godly" to some people, but my relationship to God is as real as it can be. My love for God is genuine love out of a deep gratefulness for what He has done for me, not for what I have "done" for Him.
Thank you for sharing and for being so transparent!
~Sally : )
Thank you Sally for sharing some of your story! You encouraged me. Like you, the one thing that I don't regret is all of the Scripture memory. The Word of God is so powerful. It's the Scriptures that have and will set many free.
I love what you said: "Realizing just how much God loves me made me realize that it was okay to be myself, to think my own thoughts and have my own opinions, because I reflect back to Him the gifts and talants that He has given me. I may not appear to be "godly" to some people, but my relationship to God is as real as it can be. My love for God is genuine love out of a deep gratefulness for what He has done for me, not for what I have "done" for Him." This reminded me of an incident that happened recently.
It was said to me by a young man in his 30's that I was more dangerous now in my beliefs than when I embraced Gothard's teachings. First, that would indicate that there is danger in Gothard's teachings which I definately agree, but secondly, he was judging my heart assuming that I no longer have any standards which is also incorrect. God knows my heart and He is the one who matters. The road to recovery has been a difficult one.
Like clay in the potter's hand. Being broken and molded is painful, but often necessary to bring about the finished project. I'm definately a work in progress. I still have so much to learn. I wish I was through making mistakes, but that's not going to happen until heaven. God bless you and your family.
Bless you, my friend!
Aaron, your words truly blessed my heart today. Thank you!
Tammy, thank you so much for this! It did my heart good. :)
Praising God that He is using my mistakes to encourage others.
So grateful for your parent's perspective, Tammy! Like Will said, I think that voices like yours are truly needed on this site. I told my wife last week, "What if in 20 years our kids are writing articles for a web site about how we messed up their lives?!" I'm sure they'll have plenty to write about, because we'll make plenty of well-meant mistakes along the way. The choices of our parents are generally done from the honest motivation of what's best for us, and I think that describes the majority of ATI parents too. Those well-meaning decisions can still land us in a dark place, and I'm so thankful for your honest description of how you got there, how you got out, and what you learned along the way.
Thanks Kevin! I agree with what you wrote. Parenting is tough. I have often wished I could go back and do things over, but that is impossible. Perhaps God giving me grandkids is Him giving me my second chance. :)
Hi Tammy,Thank you so much for sharing your family's story on the site. I could relate to your journey and remembered some of what you went through from when we spent time together at the OTC. I know it was not easy to have to stir all that up again. But thank you for doing it as it is an encouragement for us parents to be willing to admit where we too have mislead our children.
Elaine, you and your family were one of God's blessings to us while we were going through a very difficult time. I always looked forward to joining your family at mealtimes. The love and kindness you and your family showed us had such an impact on me. Thank you! I remember some in leadership not treating your husband and family in a Christ-like way. I don't remember the details now, but that was one of the things that God used in my experience at the OTC to get me to start asking questions about Bill and his organization. You have a lovely family.
Thank you Tammy! We did have some good times fellowshipping together. I too enjoyed getting to know you better. We had some good laughs and I learned alot from you as well. I did not remember how much I shared about our time there. But it's ok. I have mostly good memories of OTC, although I'm not sure my kids would say that. One of them said to me the other day though that it was good for us to be there so we could have a better understanding of some of the problems with the ministry. That encouraged me to see her perspective. The Lord is such an amazing healer!
Thank you for being honest and sharing a parent's perspective. It helps me understand my own parents' choices in regards to IBLP. I've always known that they were just trying to right by their children, it helps to hear it from a different parent as I'm able to hear it in a different way than with my own parents right now.
Katie, I'm glad my story was helpful to you. Most parents really do want good things for their kids. Unfortunately, that isn't good enough. We still make mistakes no matter how much we don't want to make them. I couldn't tell for sure from your comment whether or not your parents are still supportive of IBLP. It's my prayer that if they are that they will soon see the error of Bill's teachings.
I've been excited to see your testimony on here! Thank you for your sweet transparency. I know it has to be difficult for the parents who chose an erroneous program like ATI, but we've all made mistakes in our lives and we've all believed things that are not true. (And let's be real... parenting is tough, tough, tough!) God is good to bring us through these mistakes and learning and thriving outside of those mistakes. Bless you and every other x-ATI parent. (((hugs)))
You nailed it! "Parenting is tough, tough, tough!" I am grateful, but amazed how God has taken my mistakes, is turning them around and is now making something beautiful out of them. (((hugs)))
it is wonderful to see and know that GOD can work thru anything, even our perceptions of what HE has said or thought. when we stop putting GOD in a box, we truly see HIM for who HE really is. thank you soooooo much for your willingness to share this and keep going on in GOD!!
God is good! We definately need to quit putting God in a box. I'm still guilty of doing this at times.
"Honestly, they were what I as a young believer thought godliness might look like."
This line totally jumped out at me because isn't that something that is so appealing?!!! I remember one time my brother said my parents wanted us to be "little Gothards." I think that is one of the manipulations of the ministry is not only the focus on outward appearance... but that appearance looks so tempting to parents. It's such a trap. "Do A B & C and your children will look like this!"
Thank you so much Tammy for your honesty!!! It is so refreshing! I think that, for me, even though I understand and have forgiven my parents it sure would go a long way in my own healing if they would just admit what happened. And I know that it is incredibly hard to do so I truly admire you for all that you have said here. I pray that when my kids are grown, and I know that I will have made mistakes with them, that I will be just as honest with them as you have been here.
Big Hugs!!!
Wendy, I hurt for you. I'm glad that you have been able to forgive your parents even when they haven't been able to admit their part in what happened. I pray their eyes will be opened and that they will see their error and seek forgiveness. Big hugs to you too!
Good points, I did not realize the truth of the following concept until my father in law repeated it to me a number of times in various ways. The basic summary of what he said is this: "Many of the godly young people especially during earlier years WERE NOT the FRUIT of ATI but of the parents that were ALREADY following God BEFORE getting into ATI. Mr. Gothard credited ATI and the principles for making these young people when that credit IN TRUTH belongs to God. The parents should be given honor for obedience to God."
I repent for my attitudes of fleshly pride and arrogance that were fed well by the system. Lord, remind me to never judge another man's servant but to contend earnestly for the faith until all is brought into subjection to Christ! Help us to submit to the authority of your Holy Spirit and to rebuke all in love who come against Your word and the testament of your blood.
"What can deliver us from the this body of corruption?" Character? Committments? Resolve? Standards? Position? No, ONLY CHRIST!
"Many of the godly young people especially during earlier years WERE NOT the FRUIT of ATI but of the parents that were ALREADY following God BEFORE getting into ATI.
I have given this statement a lot of thought since I first read it a couple of weeks ago. It's been sort of mind boggling to me. I wonder why so many of us parents didn't realize this? Our family got into the program when it was about 4 yrs old. I totally agree with you. ATI DID not produce those young people. It was the result of the parents hard work and of course, God working in their lives.
Amen. Thank you Samuel.
"Our righteousness is in Him, and our hope depends, not upon the exercise of grace in us, but upon the fullness of grace and love in Him, and upon His obedience unto death."
John Newton
I wonder if your kids "excelled" in music because they had other kids as a benchmark? My kids were so lonely when we did homeschool--all the groups were Patriarchal and we didn't like that. Finally we found a much more inclusive group but were nearly shunned because we went to church! Still, my daughter lived for those group activities so she could see how she was doing vis-a-vis other kids her age. (Both kids are back in public school).
Excellent Post. That book is excellent and is scary! Your son was very, very brave to give it to you.
Lisa, I'm not exactly sure why my kids excelled in music. They did have some great music teachers and some great programs that they got to participate in as well as time to practice their music. However, the music programs were not the only things that they were allowed to participate in. Even though we did try to protect our kids from a lot of outside influences, we were very active in our church and they were with other kids several times a week while they were growing up. Things like Sunday School, Discipleship Training, Mission Friends, RA's and GA's, etc. Their frequency of attending church and their memorizing of Scripture is probably the biggest factor in their being able to recognize the error in Bill's teachings. I think homeschooling can be done with some great results as long as they are getting a good education and are being allowed to be with kids their own age. They do need to learn social skills so that they aren't awkward later in life. Also, I believe it is possible to send your kids to public school and have them turn out great. It takes work either way on the parents part staying involved in their lives. Parenting is work and it isn't easy. Lots of prayer involved too. Thanks for your kind words.
I really enjoyed your story. Thank you. I don't hold it against my parents, I know they were doing what they thought was best. Its painful to remember certain memories, and I know it is for my parents also.
Katie, It is painful to remember certain memories, but if we learn from our mistakes, then it is a good thing and it also enables us to help others when the opportunity presents itself. Sounds like you have a good relationship with your parents and that is good.
[…] Some of you have regrets. You look back and say “What were we thinking?!” You know you made mistakes, big ones, and you know it hurt us, hurt our relationship with you. Some of you are watching your children struggle to overcome the consequences of your choices for them and hurt for them and are angry at yourself. Can you please just say it?Be as open and honest as we are. You know what I don’t hear in the reactions of our parents that I listed above? “We are so sorry.” Why is that so difficult to say? I know it’s scary to think that the choices you made damaged your children. I’m a parent. I have the same fears that my choices will hurt my kids. But as a parent, I cannot imagine NOT telling them “I’m sorry” when they come to me and lay bare their souls, and explain how I’ve hurt them and how they’re healing. Yes, it hurts. But I guarantee that holding it inside and bearing that burden alone will hurt you and your children far more than being honest with them about your regret. […]